19433: Win Updates Do Not Work On Cloned Drive But DO On Source Drive

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Michael Estey
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Hello all.

I am sorry if this has been discussed somewhere on the forums here but I have spent a LOT of time and cannot find anyone with the exact same issue I am having.

I have a Toshiba Satellite laptop running Windows 7 64 bit and I am trying to create a fully functional clone of my drive using TI 2010 latest build (7160).
I use the boot disk method as I found a LONG time ago this is the most successful way to clone a drive.
My current main drive is a Seagate 500 Gig drive and is a PERFECTLY functional clone of the 250 Gig drive that came with the system.
My problem arises when I clone to my Seagate 750 gig hard drive. I clone via an external docking port as I ALWAYS have in the past. The clone goes well but when I put the cloned drive into my system the drive works seemingly perfectly with the exception that Windows Updates no long works and my Windows Live Mail no longer works.
I take out the newly cloned drive and put the source drive back in and sure enough Windows Updates and Windows Live Mail work perfectly fine as they always have. It is ONLY the newly cloned 750 gig drive that cannot contact Windows Updates or Windows Live Mail, the 500 gig source drive CAN.

1: What's up with that?

2: Will TI 2011 fix this issue? I downloaded the trial version but have not tried it yet.

Can anyone help me before I totally lose my sanity here?

Thanks,

Mike

GroverH
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Not sure why your issue but you might try

1. Create a backup of your working disk and the backup needs to be a full disk option backup to include all partitions (including hidden or non-lettered partitions. If you already have such a backup, you can use it.

2. Shutdown and install the 750 in its intended boot position so it is the only disk attached except for your backup storage disk.

3. From your backup, Restore two items which are: the track0/mbr and also restore the "Recover Disk Signature" and this option the screen where you choose the 750 as the target disk to receive the MBR.

I believe the above will work. But if it doesn't then my suggestion would be to restore the entire disk backup including the mbr and disk signature but these last two items must be restore separately after all partitions have been restored.

Check out my guides listed in item 3-BB inside my signature index below. The one related to Compaq has partition arrangement most like your Toshiba--which is:
the first partition is the 100mb active partition; the second partition is the larger user drive C with disk model number as its name; and the 3rd partition is the manufacturer recovery partition

AttachmentSize
manufacturer_windows7_installations.gif 41.8 KB
Michael Estey
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Hello GroverH and thank you for taking the time to respond and trying to help me.

I need to ask a few questions to clarify:

My present primary drive (500 gig) is nearly full. I have only 59.9 gig free. How much space will this back up take and where should I back it up?
I probably can't back it up ti the drive I will be restoring to right? (750 gig) Will the restoration over write the back up?
Perhaps I should have a third drive to make the backup to?

So if I appear stupid but after having a number of useless backups in the past I gave up trying to do backups with True Image and only use it for cloning. I have never had issues cloning until now and wish I could learn why and how to fix this problem.

Michael Estey
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GroverH.

I guess I just answered some of my own questions.
I allowed my system to do a backup to my 750 gig drive last night and it took 305 gig of space.
Can I just copy this to another drive and then restore it from that drive to my 750 gig drive?

GroverH
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Yes, you should be able to do that.

Michael Estey
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GroverH,
Above you said:
"3. From your backup, Restore two items which are: the track0/mbr and also restore the "Recover Disk Signature" and this option the screen where you choose the 750 as the target disk to receive the MBR."

If I don't restore the entire disk how will I access my files? How can I boot to it?
Well, my copy to the spare disk is nearly finished. I guess I will find out.

Mike

Michael Estey
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Well, I spent twice as much time doing a backup and restore as it normally takes to do a clone and I get the exact result as above.
Windows Updates and Windows Mail will not work. When I try to use Windows updates I still get a message that the service is not running even though it is.
I have reached the point where I am ready to give up on Acronis and try another cloning tool.

Thanks for your attempt to help GroverH.

Mike

GroverH
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Michael,
Did you checkmark the "Recover Disk Signature" on the last restore? If no, you can redo the restore of the MBR and Disk Signature by themselves.

Pat L
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Michael,

Just in case, and since you don't mention it in your post: is your Windows activated upon restore? The underlying assumption here is that you dont have access to Windows Update because your Windows is not activated.
Restoring the disk signature typically helps avoid activation issues.

If Windows is not activate, just try to reactivate it. That might take care of it.

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Michael Estey
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Hello Pat.

I just checked and yes, Windows reports as activated and it gives me the product ID as well.

GroverH,

I believe I checked off everything but I would have to start the process over again to be sure. As nothing else has helped I may try that again.

GroverH
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Michael,
You have been pretty thorough so you probably have done what I suggested.

If you are game to something else which would take very little time, you might try another possibility.

http://www.xboxharddrive.com/freeware.html
From the above link, download the "HardDiskSerialNumberChanger.exe"

There is no install. Just copy the download to both drives.

Run it first on the old drive and copy down the serial numbers for each partition on the 250.

Then boot from the 650 and change the serial numbers on the 650 to the same as those on the 250.

I don't believe there is any risk as both drives are not attached at the same time.

I have found that Windows is very astute at noting differences. I had troubles with Windows updates which related to a prior disk restore.

I don't know anything about Windows mail. What if you installed it another copy overtop of the existing (650) or did a uninstall/reinstall. Have you tested any method to just restore you email folders without restoring the other parts of the email program?

PS: The above may or may not be successful for your issue.
Sometimes I use the disk serial changer program to change/match external drives which I alternate at times. The a

Michael Estey
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Thank you once again GroverH for trying to help me.

I used the serial number changer on both drives. They both had the same number as it turns out so I didn't need to change it.
I have an idea I wanted to run by you:
Since Windows tells me that the Updates service is not running on the cloned drive even though when I check it says it is on, what if I shut it off on my 500 gig drive prior to cloning and the when I put the cloned drive in I go and turn it on? Think that might make some sort of difference?

GroverH
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I do not believe it would make any improvements. I don't know for sure but I believe Windows is looking at the registry to get its information--maybe here.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices

I have another suggestion if you are interested in perhaps another wild goose chase.

I recently was forced to do a clone on my brand new laptop Win7-64.
Afterwards, Windows update did update several of the updates needed but would not download and install SP1. I searched the web and found one idea

Stop the update service.
Rename the c:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution folder to
c:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution.old

Reboot and attempt to use Windows update. The service should be running or will begin.
This fix enabled me to download and install all the updates and Win7 sp1 without issue.

What this does however will be to show that you computer has never received any Windows updates and will list what updates need to be downloaded and installed. In my case, it was only 6 that was needed to get me current.

Whether this will work for you or help your mail issue, I do not know but could be worth a try.
No promises.
Grover

Michael Estey
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WOW! COOL GroverH! I will give that a try shortly! Thanks!

Michael Estey
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C-R-A-P!!!!!!!!!!!! It had NO effect GroverH. SOB!!! I was hoping that would do it!!!
BUT, thanks for your continued help. Any other ideas?

Mike

GroverH
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You can undo the renaming and be back to where you were before the renaming. You will have to delete the new one.

If your disk management view shows the Toshiba to be as illustrated in my post #1 attachment,
another possibility might be to restore the first partition which is the active partition and is marked as "System" and this partition has no drive letters. Also check mark the MBR and checkmark "Recovery disk signature on the target page.

Other than the above, I am out of ideas at the moment.

Do you a Recovery CD from any prior version of TrueImage? If yes, you might consider using it to take a full disk backup and the use the old CD to perform the clone or the disk restore.

Alexander
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Hello GroverH,
I tried all the restore method (a, b, c),
I tried via Windows & via the Rescue CD (clone & restore), I did checkmark the "Recover Disk Signature" and so on ...without success.

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GroverH
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Here is a cloning procedure you might want to try. It seems everything else you have tried does not work.

http://forum.acronis.com/forum/16485#comment-62404

Lifu Zhang
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Same issue here.

I upgraded from a WD 500gb to Seagate 750gb on my Vista laptop. Now Windows Update & Windows Live Mail stopped to work.

As suggested by other users, I tried to update Intel Rapid Storage Technology software (v10) and now WLM is working but Windows Update still NOT.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02219204&cc=nl&lc=e...

Any ideas where to go from here? Thanks!!!

Michael Estey
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OK. I finally got around to trying the "As Is" cloning procedure. It has been a while since I have enjoyed a little TI torture so I figured, what the heck, I'll try it. And BIG surprise, that DID NOT work either!
I just cannot figure out why, if a clone is an exact copy of a drive, something that works on the original will NOT work on the clone! It makes NO SENSE at ALL to me!

deadeye
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Wow. This had been driving me nuts. I have been trying to move/clone a Vista 32bit to a Western Digital Advanced Format Drive. Kept having issues with some Windows Live products (Mail most importantly) and Windows Update, etc. Here's what I did...after many attempts at different ways of copying my old drive...and many hours...+ attempting to use multiple backup programs (Macrium, True Image, True Image WD Edition). This was due to me not being certain if the issue was the imaging software or windows. I'd just assumed the imaging software since everything I'd read seemed to indicate I shouldn't have any issues if the imaging software supported Advanced Format drives. I'd thought Windows should install any needed drivers upon detection, but apparently there is still a patch needed due to the way a lot of MS applications are written.

Ok.

Installed the Intel Rapid Storage Technology version 9.6 per Western Digital suggestions...couldn't get the newest to install.
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=18859
Not really sure if this was needed, but it was the first thing I did as recommended by WD

Installed the Microsoft patch related to Advance Format issues with ESENT Applications (Extensible Storage Engine API)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2470478/en-us (Vista and Server 2008)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/982018 (if running Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2)

Then I took an image of the entire drive (old one) and restored to the new drive. I just restored the entire disk along with MBR, etc. in one swoop.

FYI - if you already have an image you want to use or have restored one and don't want to take a new one: To install the Microsoft Patch, you'll need to get Windows Update running. Just stop the Windows Update Service, rename %windir%\SoftwareDistribution to something else and then restart the Windows Update Service. Then install the patch. This should get you working as well. (Again, not certain if Intel Rapid Technology drivers are needed or not)

Quite frankly...this Advanced Format drive was a PitA. Should've got a regular non-AF drive. lol

GroverH
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Michael,
Can you be more specific than "it did not work". What was the error message? Did it attempt to boot, etc. Any clarification would help to find an answer.

Michael Estey
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Hello Grover and anyone else who finds this frustrating thread.

I have found a solution to this issue as can be seen at my other post entitled "I Give Up".

Here is a quote of the reply made there:

"Well Lifu Zhang I have to hand it to you! I downloaded the ENU version of the Intel Rapid Storage Technology and installed it and IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I now have both my Windows Live Mail back AND my windows updates!!!!
Thanks SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH for posting this!
Please, LET'S spread the word about this! Perhaps we can help a lot of other people!
Grover H, perhaps you can help spread the word?"

deadeye
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The Intel Rapid Technology piece by itself didn't do anything for me. So, although it may not be a fix for everyone...the MS patch definitely fixed mine.

Might have something to do with you being Windows 7 and my issue was on Vista.

GroverH
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Michael and Deadeye,
Both fixes will be added to my guides index as item #8-P.

motovisa
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I too, had the exact problem after cloning a Vista drive. I followed your link to get the Microsoft patch and it fixed my Windows update problem.

Thank you!

John Miller
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Thank you all! I was searching the internet for a fix to this exact problem and did exactly everyone else did. Finally I came across this post. I changed my hard serial number and installed the latest Intel Rapid software/drivers and everything works perfect now.

Thanks again!

GroverH
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Thanks John for reporting your success. Good luck.

ManyBobcat
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I had a similar situation, I setup a Temporary drive with Vista, installed service packs 1 and 2, various other updates, trend and the standard java, adobe, etc. I then picked up the replacement drive and cloned the temporary drive to the new. After this windows update would not work.
Kept throwing the check the service is running message.

I tried MS Fixit for windows update, found and fixed 2 errors but still no success.
I tried re-registering the associated dll's, no effect.
Ran SFC, said it found some corrupted files and fixed them, no effect.
Tried System restore, no effect.

I found some information in a google search about intel RST update but I have and AMD system.

I finally found some information from google that the ESENT driver could be at fault, and checked the event logs and there were 236 ESENT
errors in the last hour. I found the hotfix from the MS site. At the same time I stopped the update service, emptied the Windows/SoftwareDistrobution folder and restarted.

Windows update now works.