3086: Clone question

21 replies [Last post]
kevin luttrell
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2009-08-17
Posts: 3

I just installed True Image, and wanted to create active mirror of my primary HD, to a secondary HD - which would be bootable in case the primary disk failed. It was not initially clear what choice to make, so I created clone from the utilities menu.

It now looks like that was not the correct choice. So first, want confirmation this was not correct. Secondly, if not correct, what is the best way to back out / overwrite this operation to perform the correct operation to the secondary internal disk?

DwnNDrty
Offline
Forum Star
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1033

If you want a bootable backup drive then Clone is the correct choice. What happened to the clone you created? There is a precaution you have to take when using the Clone feature and the software tells you that before you try to boot with the new clone, you must disconnect the original drive. After you successfully boot with the new clone the first time, you can reconnect the original.

kevin luttrell
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2009-08-17
Posts: 3

I want a mirror to my primary drive, which will be updated with periodic back-up, which is also bootable for DR.

A clone seems like a point in time snap shot that can also be bootable, usually used to replace a smaller hard drive. It doesn't seem like a clone can be update rountinely with a back-up.

Mark Wharton
Mark Wharton's picture
Offline
Acronis MVP Volunteer
MVP
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1714

Kevin:

You are correct. A clone is an exact copy of another disk. It cannot be updated incrementally; you can only update by making another clone.

It sounds like you may want to make images; not clones. An image of a disk is a file that contains all of the information needed to restore the disk. Images are smaller in size than clones. A disk can only hold one clone but it can potentially hold many images. With TI, an image of a typical Windows disk will be 50 - 70% of the used space on the disk. Image files can be updated incrementally as often as you wish.

However, images are not directly bootable. To use an image you have to go through the process of restoring it to the main disk, an operation that typically takes about 1 minute per Gigabyte. Considering that this is done infrequently, it is not a terrible disadvantage.

Many of the regular users prefer imaging because of its versatility. If your disk has multiple partitions you have the choice of restoring one or more of the partitions without affecting the others. And, there is additional safety in redundancy. If you keep multiple images from different dates then you may be able to find one that did not have a problem that you are currently experiencing with Windows. If you keep a single clone disk, if it also has the problem that you're trying to fix then you're out of luck.

__________________

Acronis TI 10, TI 2011, TI 2013, DD 10, DD 11 user
Amateur Radio K0LO

kevin luttrell
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2009-08-17
Posts: 3

Thanks Mark. So in order to use my secondary disk for images, rather than a clone, do I simply re-format the secondary disk? Trying to understand how to un-do what I have done, to start over...

DwnNDrty
Offline
Forum Star
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1033

Yes, just format the disk. If it is a very large drive, True Image can do this much faster than Windows by using the "Add Disk" feature.

jgt1942
Offline
Regular Poster
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 313

Kevin, see if your system will support RAID1. If yes, then setup a RAID1 with your boot drive and drive 0 in the RAID. Both drives must be the same size. RAID1 is a mirror and will keep both drives in-sync 100% of the time. If either drives fails, you are informed. You shutdown your system, remove the defective drive install a new drive, power on your sytem and like magic the new drive through the RAID1 is reimaged.

Please NOTE - when you "build" the RAID1 (this is a RAID term where the drives are setup for RAID usage) the data on BOTH drives will be destroyed (yes both drives). Thus before you "build" the RAID1, make sure you have created a BU of it using TI and you have a TI recovery CD (bootable). Then boot using the TI recovery CD, use the restore function to move a copy of the image to the RAID1. After the restore runs you can boot your system and be assured that you are much better protected.

__________________

jgt
Desktop-S4 (Win7 Ultimate x64, 16GB RAM, 12TB (2-3TB RAID 1 (Win7), 1-RAID 5 (3ware card) Boot Drive 180GB Corsair Force 3 SSD , Dual Monitors, GeForce GTX470, Motherboard ASUS Crosshair IV Extreme, AMD Phenom™ II 6 core-AMD 890FX Chipset ), Laptop Lenovo W700 (Win8 x64, 4GB RAM, Boot Drive 240GB Corsair Force 3 SSD, 1-500GB (data drive), Compaq C304NR (Win8 x32) Boot Drive 160 GB SATA.

Mark Wharton
Mark Wharton's picture
Offline
Acronis MVP Volunteer
MVP
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1714

While I use RAID-1 myself, it is not enough of a backup solution. Yes, RAID-1 will protect against the hardware failure of a single disk drive but it will not protect against software errors, and the latter are much more likely to occur than the former. In addition to RAID-1 you need a way to restore the data on a disk to a previous date in order to recover from software glitches and errors.

__________________

Acronis TI 10, TI 2011, TI 2013, DD 10, DD 11 user
Amateur Radio K0LO

Ernest Herndon
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2009-09-14
Posts: 1

Can I clone to a smaller hard disk?  I'm thinking about getting a 2.5" MLC solid state drive which is 256Gig. My existing disk is a 2.5" seagate 320 meg.

Mark Wharton
Mark Wharton's picture
Offline
Acronis MVP Volunteer
MVP
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 1714

Ernest Herndon wrote:
Can I clone to a smaller hard disk?
Yes, as long as the used space on your existing disk is smaller than the size of the new disk.

__________________

Acronis TI 10, TI 2011, TI 2013, DD 10, DD 11 user
Amateur Radio K0LO

John English
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-01-02
Posts: 1

In workstation 9.1, when I work through the cloning wizad, I end up with the message that my partitions
have errors which prevent the data being move. It is suggestd that I run "chkdsk" which will corrent
the problem - except runnnig chkdsk with the /f and /r switches does not correct the problem. I have
in the past successfully cloned my C drive to my D drive (both are IDE 250GB drives). Now, all of a
sudden it won't work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ilya
Ilya's picture
Offline
Acronis Moderator
Joined: 2009-03-30
Posts: 1360

Hello all,

We are really sorry for the delay with the response.

John English: in your case I need to gather some additional information in order to investigate the issue and provide you with a solution. Could you please download Acronis Report utility and run it, create a report and attach it to your reply?

This would provide me with the detailed information about your hard drives and partitions.

We are looking forward to hearing back from you at your earliest convenience.

Thank you.

__________________

Ilya Rasovsky

Acronis Customer Central | Acronis Backup Software

For more answers to your questions, try our Knowledge Base

Our mission is to create Customer success. Our management team welcomes your comments and suggestions on how we can improve the overall support we provide to you. Please send your comments, suggestions, or concerns to Managers or submit your feedback here.

Steve Smith
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-04-17
Posts: 1

Did you ever find out WHAT TO DO when you get the "MISSING OPERATING SYSTEM" Error on Boot Up?
Steve Smith

GroverH
GroverH's picture
Offline
Forum Hero
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 8378

Steve,
Perform a search on the forum on "Missing Operating System"

Also, this posting here.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/6484#comment-12388

Why not post your question with details about what happened and the equipment and the operating system. Start a new post.

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

I want to clone a 500 GB HD. I want to have that drive available when my HD does fail. I know it will!
I have two 500 GB external HD connected to my PC with e-Sata connections. I clone using TIH 2010 rescue disk so that when I clone I can not have my operating system, XP pro confused. by two system disks. I have my external HDs labeled "odd day" and "even day" The system was cloning in 12 minutes.
Now the MBR takes 10 minutes by itself to copy! The Cloned had has 5 partitions and all seems working fine except for the MBR length of copy. Any comments? Cloning is the way to go for me!

__________________

God Bless!

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

No Replies?

__________________

God Bless!

GroverH
GroverH's picture
Offline
Forum Hero
Joined: 2009-08-15
Posts: 8378

Hopefully, you do not have both drives attached on first boot following the clone.

Couple things I would try.
1. Perform a disk error check on the source.
2. Boot from the CD and use the Acronis Add Disk option to delete the existing partitions on the target so the target is all unallocated space.

Several reports recently of people routinely performing clones and now all of sudden having problems and it is NOT all one version either.

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

Thanks for the reply...

1 CHKDSK finds no errors on the master disk and goes thru fine.
2 Adding a disk supposedly goes though the same routine of wiping the external drive clean. Whether it does it I should check, but how. I have Disk Director 11 and maybe I can wipe it clean with that, but here again I would have to use the Rescue disk and not load the external that has a cloned system.
I guess I could use the clone as the master. That may be a something to do anyway as a check on successful cloning!

As you mentioned, routine cloning may add something and that is NOT wiped clean. In fact one of the external drives seems to be infected more than the other! So it seems by "feel"' you may be correct!
An MBR is only several hundred bytes and why should it take so long to copy!

I do have to watch myself and not forget to turn off the cloned drive. I missed one and as you know, disaster struck. But that is why I have 2 external cloned drives. I may be hyper, Bu I have lost hard drives in the past and re-creartng a new drive takes time and is frustrating.

Thanks so much for your interest!

__________________

God Bless!

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

Now I am all confused. Cloning with Disk Director 11 is different from using TIH 2010!
Dir11 uses copying NT signature to the cloned drive. Nothing like that in TIH2010.

What I've done with the DIR 11 CD is have the drive I want to clone, connected. Then with the CD, DELETE my 6 partitions. Now I can use the actual program of DIR11 as only one system exists.
I clone "AS IS" and that seems to work. Takes about 18 minutes with an e-sata connection.
That's working at the system level. When system shuts down, I make sure I REMOVE the cloned drive...power off! I can then check the status of the drives with the DIR 11 CD. All partitions healthy!

If I delete the clone drive partitions and use the TIH2010 CD to clone, the MBR is the last thing to copy and it takes various times, but always more than 15 minutes! More time each time. That seems to be affected by the source operating system? Not sure or getting any indication why. But the MBR is such a small file, even if it had to copy for six partitions, would it take that long?

Is Acronis confusing me or are they confused when writing the software?

__________________

God Bless!

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

I really, really think Acronis has some work to do on cloning. I am one dissatisfied Customer!
I want to clone when I want to clone. I was cloning every other day and taking only 12 minutes total to clone an external 500gb HD. Now it it takes using the same procedure beau coup minutes. And this is using an e-sata connection to the external HD. Copying the MBR file seems to be the problem. The "indication" is that there is 1 second to go and that second NEVER ends.

Acronis has paid very little attention to cloning and is favoring backing up...I think. I have tried various ways of cloning and they are ALL different. I have TIH2010 on my PC with a Rescue Disk. My wife has TIH 2009 on her PC with a Rescue Disk. I also have Disk Director 11 and it's CD. Cloning is different on all three program. I have used all three.
This what I must use to keep sane!
1/ Use Dir11 CD with the previously cloned drive. Delete all partitions on the cloned drive. However, am I deleting the partitions of the EXTERNAL drive? Acronis does not confirm that so I have to ASSUME disk 2 is the external......sweat time!

2/ Then I can use the Dir11 PROGRAM and use "copy NT Signature" as the external has no Stystem partiton.

3/ Everything goes fine as the PC boots to System and the external drive is copied to!

4 / When the copying is done the PC shuts down.

5/ Put in the DIR11 CD and reboot. The external drive is ON

6/ Now I can VERIFY my clone process. It is successful.

7/ Shut down the the external drive, remove the CD. Reboots fine.

8/ In business, but wondering if Acronis agrees with this way of doing CLONING!

__________________

God Bless!

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

Below is the sytem I tried today. Both indicator bars indicate 100% but the system does not shut down. Yes, there originally is an option to shut down after operation complete. I check that but it is grayed out. Below is what I am trying to do.

1/ Use Dir11 CD with the previously cloned drive. Delete all partitions on the cloned drive. {However, am I deleting the partitions of the EXTERNAL drive? Acronis does not confirm that so I have to ASSUME disk 2 is the external.....}

2/ Then I can use the Dir11 PROGRAM and use "copy NT Signature" as the external has no System partition.

3/ Everything goes fine as the PC boots to System and the external drive is copied to!

Below is step 4 and that DOES NOT happen this time! I had to manually remove power from the external drive after waiting 20 minutes just to be sure! Booting the PC and Win XP seems to boot o.k.! Phew!
4 / When the copying is done the PC shuts down. (NOTE: DOES NOT SHUT DOWN THIS TIME!!!

5/ Put in the DIR11 CD and reboot. The external drive is ON

6/ Now I can VERIFY my clone process. It is successful.

7/ Shut down the the external drive, remove the CD. Reboots fine.

8/ In business, but wondering if Acronis agrees with this way of doing CLONING!

__________________

God Bless!

Billy Jack
Billy Jack's picture
Offline
Beginner
Joined: 2010-11-16
Posts: 10

Pay for help!

__________________

God Bless!