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Backing up OS on a PCIe / M2 SSD

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Beginner
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Hi

Just wondering if TI 2016 can see and backup (disk/partition) to one of the latest m2 turbo SSD's?

Looking to get a Samsung SM951 NVMe M2 card and installing Windows 10 onto it (got one of the latest Skylake Z170a boards). Can't see why not but thought I would ask. If not, then I will stick with my OS on a standard SSD connected via AHCI/SATA.

Thanks.

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Forum Hero
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#1

I can't answer your question directly, but TI does see my eMMC disk on my tablet.

Beginner
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#2
Colin B wrote:

I can't answer your question directly, but TI does see my eMMC disk on my tablet.

Thanks for the reply.

Looks like it might be a matter of "suck it and see".

Though it is a reasonable outlay of money, if I then find TI 2016 (which I've only just upgraded) can't see, or backup/restore to the new drive (which would have my OS on).

Life... never straight forward.

Beginner
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#3

O'well..

Took the plunge and installed a Samsung Sm951 M2 NVMe into my system and installed Windows 10 onto it (bit of a culture shock here!) and Acronis TI 2016 sees the new M2 drive just fine. Just backed it up in fact.

Boy these M2 turbo drives are fast!

Thought I'd post an update in case someone is wondering if this would work and be OK.

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#4

You should make the recovery disk and boot it to make sure it will see the tib file on your M2 for recovery.

Beginner
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#5

Good idea. I'll put it on my list.

Thanks.

PS. Especially as I had issues initially trying to boot from anything other than my EFI OS boot partition. Think there's a bug in the BIOS if you try and run in UEFI/Legacy mode. Switch to UEFI only and problem goes away.

Beginner
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#6

Michael,

I'm planning to do the same with an ASRock Z170 Extreme 7+ and the SM951 NVME 512 GB.
How are your boot times using UEFI and fast boot ON?

Beginner
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#7

Remco

Hi...

Got Windows Fast Boot switched off.
As I'm sure you are aware, Windows 10 does (by default) a "hybrid shutdown" (IE. writes a load of stuff to the hibernate file when you shut down your PC) to speed things up next boot. Don't like this myself, so one of the first things I disabled was this. Would be switched off automatically anyway on my PC, as I always switch off sleep/hibernate, which would cause Windows fast boot to be disabled anyway. I do this because I was a very early adopter of SSD's and there was no end of problems with earlier SSDs (especially the OCZ Vertex drives) coming out of sleep/hibernate. Probably all sorted now but there you are.

The second thing I disabled was the biggest piece of tat in Windows 10... Cortana. Don't like Microsoft wrapping up a sneaky bit of data mining in a tool like this. Think I can manage without a "virtual assistant" thank you.

Windows 10 also defers quite a few of the startup services, so that you reach a usable worktop quicker anyway.

So... taking all the above into account. How are my boot times. Great actually.
Excluding pre-boot, BootRacer says 6 seconds to the Windows logon and then another couple of seconds to reach a usable desktop. Though obviously there are still startup tasks/services ongoing at this point. But the desktop is usable wayyy before it used to be in previous versions of Windows.

Mind you... Not like I really care much about boot times anyway. I've never considered it an important metric when considering splashing out a fair bit of cash on the latest and greatest drives to support my OS. More interested in how a drive performs in genuine day-to-day use.

Hard to cost justify these new drives, with decent SATA based SSDs now being so reasonably priced. And not totally convinced that most folks (unless benchmarking etc.) will notice the difference between one of these an a decent SATA SSD (there's honesty for you). But if you want the fastest out there at the moment... then this is it. No pockets in a shroud, that's what I always say.

Just remember that they are not consumer drives, they are really OEM, aimed at system builders. So very little support out there for them at the moment. Nothing currently can read the SMART data off them, or Secure Erase them. Even samsung have said that they are very unlikely to add full support for them in their Magician software. I have raised a query with the nice people at Parted Magic, to see if they intend to add support for these sorts of drives at some point. Currently still awaiting a response.

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#8

Michael,

Thanks, i should have written BIOS fast boot ON :) as that's what i meant.
Did you first install windows 8.1 or windows 10 directly?
Do you use the native windows NVME driver?
I'm planning to buy two and use the second one to make very fast back ups with Acronis.

Thanks,

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#9

Michael,

Thanks for your postings. It is great to see another early SSD adopter like myself here on the Forum. Your commentary on this new breed of drives was very well put and hopefully other users looking here for answers about support for these devices will come across this thread.

I have a comment about the fast boot - hibernation issue of them old days, I believe current day hardware and sleep implementation has indeed overcome those old issues. I have BETA tested Win 10 and TI 2016 and have not seen any of those old issues occur during testing. Test machine running a combination of SSD's and HDD's but not any pci-e based drives although that shouldn't make any difference as I see it.

I have recently gotten hold of a Samsung XP941 drive, bit of a step back from what is being discussed here but, good numbers all the same. I will be using this drive as a boot drive in an old system upgrade I have planned on a 10 year old system which is still running those old SSD's. The rig has 2 Gen 2 Summit drives, 2 Vertex turbos. and 1 Gen 1 OCZ Core drive. Machine still runs fine and has been used on a daily basis since I built it but have the itch to move on so!!!!!

I hope that readers will take note of your excellent point that these new SSD's are NOT consumer drives but meant for OEM or system builders for testing purposes and that support is next to none. Have seen many over the years not heed such advise and end up in catastrophe.

Again, thanks for posting.

Beginner
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#10

Remco wrote:
Michael,

Thanks, i should have written BIOS fast boot ON :) as that's what i meant.
Did you first install windows 8.1 or windows 10 directly?
Do you use the native windows NVME driver?
I'm planning to buy two and use the second one to make very fast back ups with Acronis.

Thanks,

Remco

Tried both UEFI Fast Boot and MSI's own implementation of this (most originally called "MSI Fast Boot") and TBTH neither seem to make that much difference. Think now it's a case of "diminishing returns" when it comes to boot times.
IE. will you really notice much difference between a boot time of 8, 10 or 12 seconds? I suspect not.

Because of the outstanding question of whether a retail copy of Windows 7/8 upgraded to Windows 10 will retain it's retail state (for all time), I decided to purchase a Retail copy of Windows 10 on USB3. Then there's no doubt of where I stand, as I now have in my possession a nice little plastic card with a retail key on it. After speaking to two different reps at Microsoft and "still" getting two conflicting stories... I decided that for the £86 cost, I would just suck it up and buy a retail copy of Windows 10.

Yes, just used the Windows 10 native NVMe driver, Think it's pretty mature now.

Installing Windows 10 from USB3 was a breeze. It detected I was running a UEFI board and installed Windows 10 correctly to an EFI environment. And luckily appear to have had zero issues so far. Just slightly nervous that there is little support out there for these drives. Just in discussion with Parted Magic to see how the land lies and if they can do anything.

Good luck.

PS. Just be aware that not everyone has been as lucky as me and there appear to be a fair few people out there that have had issues with these drives. Though fair enough, most are trying to get them to run on older boards. If you are on Z170, then I suspect you should have no issues (hopefully).

Beginner
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#11

So i am able to see the drives but when i go to clone i get Can not lock disk. I can not find anything on the internet for this. I am using Acronis 2016 Windows PE recovery. Any suggestions or fixes that can assist me?

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#12

Michael, cloning may not work if you are coming from a MBR/Legacy OS build and attempting to clone to a GPT disk (such as the 950 Samsung PRO PCIE NVME hard drive).  I'm assuming you're using such a drive sinc this is where the forum last left off?

In your case (I do this for every OS move anyway), woudl be to take a full disk backup of your existing drive and save it to another one (external USB drive) using the offline bootable recovery media.  Then use the same media to restore that full disk image to the new hard drive.  The results are the same as a clone, but without the clone limitations - plus you've made a backup of your original data with this method in case things go wrong.

This youtube video explains the entire process in realtime... you can skip through the bad music :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-YoKl24G4

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#13

Thank you for the quick reply. I figured it out. I guess windows does not shutdown when you tell it too. I had to remove the batter and then power cycle it for it to work. If you might no of a better way then tat would be helpful. Thank you again for the help. Slowly but surlly its starting to come together.

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#14

Yes, Windows is using "fastboot" as of Windows 8. Basically, instead of completely shutting down, it is harnessing hibernation to quickly shutdown and powerup, but does not acutally shutdown unless you physically power off.  It's basically the same concept that iOS uses for iPhones and iPads to make the process faster.

If need be, you can disable fast boot, but you may notice slower start times (if you have a fast SSD - probably not that noticeable though).

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-fast-startup-turn-off-windows-10-a.html

 

Beginner
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#15

Hi,

 

i have this drive via a new Dell M5510.  Have any of you be able to actually restore the drive from an Acronis Image?  I could not do ythis and wonder if this is just impossible or if there are settings issues. 

Beginner
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#16

Jerryyyyy wrote:

Hi,

 

i have this drive via a new Dell M5510.  Have any of you be able to actually restore the drive from an Acronis Image?  I could not do ythis and wonder if this is just impossible or if there are settings issues. 

I've been dutifully backing up (TI 2016) my pcie drive since I got it. But not had (up to now) any reason to try to recover it.

I had sort of assumed, that as TI2016 could see the drive to back it up, then recovering it should not be a problem.

Question... what problem/s have you encountered?

 

PS. For any one that's interested. The nvme driver from Samsung that claims it is just for the 950 pro, works just fine with the SM951 (been running the latest version since it came out). Though you would need to run some serious testing suite (EG. PCmark 08) to see the difference. But it is there. Just don't expect quick and nasty test apps like Crystan Disk Mark etc. to show you a huge performance boost.

Beginner
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#17

Just that problem.  The restore USB does not see the drive....  I had to do a restore and it failed.  Then I redid the system and have backed up again, created a new USB key, and simulated a restore by booting the USB key and it does not see the 951. 

This is on a new high-end Dell laptop (mobile precision workstation). 

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#18

Jerryyyyy,

Change your SATA Mode in your bios from RAID to AHCI mode.  This will enable the drive to be seen by the boot media.  After you have finished whatever it is you are doing (backup or recovery) then return the bios setting to RAID.

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#19

Ditto to Enchantec's post. I have to do this with many of the newer Dell's as well.  It is recommended to keep the drive in RAID if you can (to take full benefit of NVME drives capabilitiies).  However, when using a single NVME drive, I have been switching to AHCI as standard practice and leaving them that way.  Benchmark tools still show full speed potential so I have been leaving them as AHCI.

the work-a-round, if you want to leave them in RAID SATA mode is to temporarily change to AHCI in the bios, boot the media, take your backup or restore your image, boot back into the bios, swtich to RAID and boot your OS like normal.

Alternatively, you can make Windows PE with Acronis and inject the IRST (Intel Rapid Store Technology) drivers into the WinPE so that RAID drives are automatically detected.  All 3 options will work, but up to you to decide which one you think would be the easiest or most useful. 

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#20

Thank you very much for this information.  The Dell engineers are of no help... just reinstall the OS....  

If I change the boot mode in the BIOS does that risk bricking the machine and make the disk unreadable... I assume not... but if it is RAID now I am less worried about speed and more worried about having a good backup... so would make sense to go to AHCI.

Now, there is one more little nuance to this, what happens if you have to use Bitlocker on the drive?  I believe in the past if I ran Bitlocker it would make an unencrypted image to restore or am I wrong on that.  Then there is the question of how this interacts with secure boot. 

Nothing is simple, but need some guidance here. 

Again, I really appreciate the help... am on the bleeding edge of technology here (for ma at least). 

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#21

Changing the SATA mode to AHCI from RAID will not brick your machine.  The Intel drivers used for the drives on these machines are an all in one AHCI/RAID driver package.  Both drivers are included in a single driver package.  When you install Windows and your SATA mode is set to RAID you must supply the Windows installer with the RAID drivers during installation.  Since the Intel drive controller supports both then both drivers are picked up and installed by Windows installer.  This is how Dell does it when they install Windows on a machine.  If this were not the case then Bobbo's changing this mode and leaving it that way would result in an unbootable machine.

You may not notice any speed change in the drive as these PCIe drives being some 5 times faster than an SATA III SSD a slight drop in speed is not noticeable in normal operation.  If you perform video editing or some other disk intensive work then you would see the difference as the AHCI driver is not optimized in the same way as the RAID driver is for the NVMe connection.  The difference here is that of latency on I/O function, much better with  NVMe or RAID over AHCI.

There has been no change in the handling of Bitlocker, backups created are done in an unencrypted mode.

Using the Secure Boot feature of the bios should not be effected by SATA mode setting.

Beginner
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#22

Thank-you again very much for your help.  I am getting a real tutorial here. 

Seems to me the best is not to change anythinfg is in the BIOS and try to maintain the RAID configuration (do not change it if not broken).  Thus I should make a WINPE-BASED recovery media with the appropriate drivers. 

When I create my WINPE-BASED recovery media askes if I want to download WINDOWS AIK or ADK.  I understand these are one and the same with newer and older names.  The download is:  adksetup.exe. 

Hate to be concrete, but does this executable include the RAID drivers and how do you use it when you create the media?  Does it create the media on a USB key?

Again, hate to be concrete but having just had my machine bricked I am a bit gunshy. 

Thanks for all the help!

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#23

The WinPE media does not contain the RAID drivers natively.  You must inject or add the drivers manually to the WinPE media.  Have a look at Bobbo's post above in the bottom section of the post in blue.  Find number 10 DISMGUI.  This is a link to a third party tool that is fairly easy to use and can help in adding the RAiD drivers to the WinPE media.

You can download the Intel drivers from the Intel Support download site.  The link below will take up there.  Input your OS version and appropriate drivers will displayed for you.  The drivers will come in a compressed package whcih you will need to extract the driver files from. 

Basically you will need to download the DISMGUI tool.  Download the appropriate driver package, extract the contents into a folder somewhere that you can remeber.  Run the adksetup with a blank USB thumb drive attached to your machine by using the Media Builder tool found in the tools section of the True Image application.  It will install WinPE to the USB thumb drive.  Once the media is built run the DISMGUI tool as an admin.  You will need to mount the bootwim file located on the USB thumb drive to start.  You will find that file in the Sources folder on the thumb drive.  Select it and choose Mount WIM.  Now Click on the Driver Management tab and choose the Drivers Folder Location where you extracted the contents of the Intel Driver package to.  oonce selected click on the Add Drivers button and the tool will add the drivers to the WinPE media.

That's it.  Boot to the WinPE media, you will first see a command prompt window, just let it run and shortly the True Image app will load and run in the foreground.  You should have no problem seeing your drive.

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/search?keyword=Intel%C2%AE+Rapid+Storage+Technology

Beginner
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#24

Again, thanks very much. 

I have downloaded the adksetup.exe, DISMGUI and the Intel drivers (looks like I need 2).  I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but when I try to run the adksetup it seems to want to install on my machine and would not let me install on the USB key.  Is that a second step after you install the adksetup to my main computer/laptop? 

BTW, it appears to me that poor Bobbo has the same M5510 as I do.  I read some of his other linked posts at the bottom of his signature.  Hopefully I can follow the same path tpo a reliable backup. 

Thanks again... almost there?

JY

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#25

Yes the adk needs to be installed on your machine.  It is that which the Media Builder tools uses to create the WinPE.

Beginner
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#26

Again, I appreciate the help with the tedious process, but perhaps this thread will be of use to others.

1.  I have everything installed. 

2.  I ran the rescue Media Builder from the Acromis Tool to make a WIN-PE based media with the Acromis plug in on a clean USB Key. Says it completed OK. 

3.  I ran the DISM GUI as admin.  I mounted bootwin foundin D:\sources.  This is the info from DISM:

4.  Command line that ran is dism.exe /Get-WimInfo /wimFile:"D:\sources\boot.wim"

5.  This is the info from DISM:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.14393.0

Details for image : D:\sources\boot.wim

Index : 1
Name : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Description : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Size : 1,585,999,978 bytes

The operation completed successfully.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

6.  Back to DISM and the Driver Management Tab and selected the extracted folder from Intel:  RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64.

7.  Mounted the .win folder and then it allowed me to add the drivers (output):

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Command line that ran is dism.exe /image:"C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\Windows_PE_Mount" /Add-Driver /driver:"C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64" /recurse

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.14393.0

Image Version: 10.0.14393.0

Searching for driver packages to install...
Found 2 driver package(s) to install.
Installing 1 of 2 - C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64\iaAHCIC.inf: The driver package was successfully installed.
Installing 2 of 2 - C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64\iaStorAC.inf: The driver package was successfully installed.
The operation completed successfully.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

8.  Well, I guess I need to reboot the machine from the USB key and see if it sees the RAID drive.... here goes...

 

Beginner
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#27

Again, I appreciate the help with the tedious process, but perhaps this thread will be of use to others.

1.  I have everything installed. 

2.  I ran the rescue Media Builder from the Acromis Tool to make a WIN-PE based media with the Acromis plug in on a clean USB Key. Says it completed OK. 

3.  I ran the DISM GUI as admin.  I mounted bootwin foundin D:\sources.  This is the info from DISM:

4.  Command line that ran is dism.exe /Get-WimInfo /wimFile:"D:\sources\boot.wim"

5.  This is the info from DISM:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.14393.0

Details for image : D:\sources\boot.wim

Index : 1
Name : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Description : Microsoft Windows PE (x64)
Size : 1,585,999,978 bytes

The operation completed successfully.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

6.  Back to DISM and the Driver Management Tab and selected the extracted folder from Intel:  RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64.

7.  Mounted the .win folder and then it allowed me to add the drivers (output):

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Command line that ran is dism.exe /image:"C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\Windows_PE_Mount" /Add-Driver /driver:"C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64" /recurse

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.14393.0

Image Version: 10.0.14393.0

Searching for driver packages to install...
Found 2 driver package(s) to install.
Installing 1 of 2 - C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64\iaAHCIC.inf: The driver package was successfully installed.
Installing 2 of 2 - C:\Users\yesav\Downloads\RST_Win7_8.1_10_15.0.0.1039_f6flpy-x64\iaStorAC.inf: The driver package was successfully installed.
The operation completed successfully.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

8.  Well, I guess I need to reboot the machine from the USB key and see if it sees the RAID drive.... here goes...

 

Beginner
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Comments: 23

#28

LOOKS GOOD!!!!!

I booted the USB and a nice litle Windows 10 icon appeared followed by a CMD interface reading X:\Windows\system32\wpinit

Then after a long while the Acronis GUI appeared. 

I did not have my backup with me so i could not test a restore, but the GUI allows you to see the drives mounted and indeed the RAID drive was mounted and i could browse my files.

I assume this means that the Restore interface would find the same drive.

I'll make sure this is correct tonight.

Thanks very much for the help here. I feel a lot better about my M5510 now.  I will cross-reference this post to the relevant people at Dell and there is a laptop users group for this device. 

 

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#29

Jerry, sounds like you're all set.  If it sees the drive, you'll be able to do either a backup and/or restore with that media now.  

Beginner
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#30

Hey Bobbo, I verified at home that it sees both the backups and the target RAID.  Good to go!

I will cross-reference this thread to:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/dell-precision-5510-owners-lounge.784473/page-91

BTW, they say there is a new BIOS for the 5510... I am a bit gunshy :)

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#31

You should be fine.  Dell bios updates are pretty smooth sailing.  They make you have the AC adapter plugged in, but you have battery in the laptop in case something really goes bad during the process.  We use Dell's primarily in our organization and update the bios all the time. I haven't had a bad Dell Bios update in 7 years and we do a bunch!

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#32

Yes, for me I had no problems for years.  I run a lab at a major university with a good dozen+ Dells that I watch over plus another 20 individuals with their own Dells and never had a problem until last week.  With my new 5510 normally we put Bilocker and a bunch of security software on and I was routinely updating my new 5510 with Dell when it bricked.  The bricking resulted from a BIOS update while bitlockered.  That is at least the theory.  I got the BSOD, W10 version.  The drive was unusable and did not even give me the chance to use my recovery bitlocker code.  Could not reinstall the OS.  So Dell replaced the drive.  I have suspended bitlocker for some installs in the past, but never did it for a BIOS update. 

I recently saw another Inspiron that bricked I think after the Aniversary update.  It was bitlockered also.  But it was recoverable... notwith the code but with a reinstall of the OS.  Had a standard HDD. 

We were forced to update to W10 Pro from W7 Pro because bitlocker was included in the W10 update.  We used to encrypt with Winmagic Secure Doc and never had a problem.  University required bitlocker. 

Anyway, appreciate the help with my problem.  If you have 5510 issues, go over to that other forum.  They have 90+ pages on the 5510.  My previous ones were the M3800 and M2400 and M60?.... but that was 10 years ago.  M3800 and M2400 still alive but passed down the foodchain.

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#33

Michael Owen,

I purchased my Dell XPS 15 9550 with 1TB PCIE NVM SSD back in 12.1.15.

I purchase ATI 2016 around Januaray 2016.

At that time ATI 2016 didn't support PCIE NVM SSD's per Acronis support.
I was so upset with Acronis since I was misinformed that it did support PCIE NVMs back then.

I created a bootable USB with Ubuntu on it and thought I'd be able to use " dd " command to clone drive, but even Ubuntu didn't have drivers at that time which permitted PCIE NVM SSD to be seen.  Seems like I may have to switch BIOS settings like some have mentioned.  I don't recall there was a RAID setting, but I do recall there was and UEFI and AHCI setting ( at least I think there was )...

Looks like that has changed so I'm going to see if I can create an image backup following instructions here in this forum.

Fact that you got your system to recognize drive without any issues is good.

Did you just boot off of the DVD?

Hopefully others in this thread will be able to help me create a diskimage backup and later clone that image to a new drive of same time and size.

Is it possible to clone directly from internal drive to external drive connected via USB in an enclosure or do I have to:

1. remove internal drive
2. put new drive in system
3. insert original drive in enclosure and connect via USB
4. clone from external PCIE NVME ( original drive ) to internal PCIE NVM ( new drive )
5. system should boot

Acronis said their software back in Jan 2016 didn't support cloning from internal to external then swapping drives and booting...

 

################################################

Can't tell all of you how happy I am to have found this forum...

I've tried everything in the past but nothing allowed me to see the PCIE NVM drive.

I'll go back and reread all posts in this thread to get up to speed.

################################################

Forum Hero
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#34

I've been able to successfully detect NVME hard drives with the default Acronis Linux media since build 2016 6559 and newer.  Drivers are there and working.  Acronis just released an updated version on October 26th so I'd grab the latest if I were you too.

HOWEVER... Linux does not usually have good RAID support.  If your system bios has the SATA mode set as RAID, you will need to create WinPE instead and inject the IRST drivers (or RAID controller for your system if it doesn't use a generic Intel Storage Array).  

Alternatively, if you are using RAID in the bios SATA mode, but only have one drive (most systems that come with a single NVME PCIE hard drive are shipping in RAID mode), you can temporararily swithc to AHCI mode in the bios, then boot your rescue media and it will detect the drive so you can backup and restore. Make sure to pick the option to shutdown Acronis when the task is complete so it shuts down gracefully.  Then go back into the bios and switch back to RAID before trying to boot into the OS again.

If you're using AHCI mode already, no extra steps needed, just build your media and use it.  For me, personally, I use the Acronis media builder (it's part of the app in the latest version (Isee the posted release notes for new changes).  I then create a bootable USB flash drive instead of dealing with CD's/DVD's.  It's really personal preference, but in my experience, if you have a verified/working USB flash drive, it is generally easier to use it on other systems and it is faster (especially if you have a usb 3.0 drive and usb 3.0 ports) when booting to it.  

Beginner
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#35

I used the custom USB key. 

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#36

Bobbo...,

You're like the local resident expert.

Thanks so very, very much not only for the quick reply but also the detailed response that's concise and easy to understand.

I got to find my ATI 2016 DVD.  I think I may have tossed it because I was upset with fact I bought it in Jan 2016 but it didn't support PCIE NVM then...

 

Since I registered package would I be able to still download build media so I could create a Bootable USB stick?

 

Thanks again...

 

P.S.

Are you using ATI 2016 toc

a. created backups

b. backup disk images

c. cloning of drive

 

Thanks again bobbo...

 

Truly appreciate it...

Beginner
Posts: 4
Comments: 17

#37

Looks like you guys are sorting your own problems out. Good show.

Only thing that I use TI2016 for, is for file and disk image back ups. Never yet had to recover my C: drive though (IE. the SM951). But TI2016 via the recovery disk appears to see the NVME drive OK (and the .tib). So I'm assuming a recovery would work. Never used the clone facility, as I always got the impresion that it was best (IE. safest) to do a disk image backup and then recover this to your new drive (done this sucessfully many times).

Just a shame that there are currently so many issues with my new ludicrously expensive graphics card (IE. EVGA 1070 FTW). But that's another story.

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#38

Michael,

Thanks...

You mentioned you have recovered  using a disk image; however, you mentioned not to the C: drive...

I'm asumming your C: drive is your boot drive.

Have you ever recovered to your boot drive using a disk image?

Thanks for responding and for information.

 

Beginner
Posts: 4
Comments: 17

#39

Yes, C: is my boot drive (the SM951 NVME).

While I've never had to recover my boot drive while it's been on the SM951. I have had to recover my boot drive prior to this a couple of times. Once when my Vertex 4 SSD was the boot drive (drive failed... dead as the proverbial Dodo) and once prior to this when my boot drive was on an mechanical hard drive (Velociraptor)  ... this was beacuse I picked up a nasty virus and simplest way to get rid of it, was to recover back to a time when it wasn't there. Both times it worked flawlessly. TI2016 can be a life saver at times.

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#40

Michael,

Thanks...

I'm in store now and looking at True Image 2017.

Has anyone in this forum used ATI 2017?

Ideally, Acronis should allow me to download most recent update to ATI 2016 since I registered it but not sure where my ATI 2016 DVD is...

Or worst case allow me to upgrade to ATI 2017 from 2016 since 2016 was registered.

I'll give it try and see...

Reluctant to go with 2017 since it's new...

 

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#41

I'm thinking of upgrading now which is really inexpensive.

Does everyone in this forum have standalone license ( non-subscription )?

Subscription has phone support as well as free updates for $10 or $20 more...

So I debating on whether or not to get subscription....

But from past experience I never had to talk with support once I got it working and seems any issue I encouter could be resolved by using this forum...

What is forum thoughts about one time license vs subscription?

Beginner
Posts: 4
Comments: 17

#42

One time license all the way.

There's loads of seriously knowledgable folks on this forum that can help if you have any issues (as you've already found out).

Can't say that I saw anything in the 2017 version that would tempt me to upgrade. But that's just my personal case.

 

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#43

Michael,

Thanks to you and everyone else who has been so helpful.

It's truly appreciated...

Forum Hero
Posts: 68
Comments: 8216

#44

SG, if you don't need cloud storage, stick with a standalone license.  When you purchase a subscription, if you don't renew it, you can no longer use the product to backup.  If you need cloud storage and plan to keep renewing, then subscription is the way to go.  However, you can also buy a standalone copy and then purchase cloud backup seperately, which gives you the ability to use the Cloud, but shoudl you cancel or not renew the next year, you can still use the standalone version.

Cloud is a bit slow for my liking, but I do like having peace of mind with an offsite storage option in case of a disaster at the home where my main PC and multiple backups could all be compromised in one blow with a fire or something like that. There are other options though, like taking local backups and storing them in another Cloud location too.  Really comes down to personal need/preference.  

Remember that you can test a trial for 30 days for free.  And if you purchase and have any issues, Acrnis has a 30 day no questions refund policy so you can try one and if you think you made the wrong choice, then you can request to change to the other option (jus tdo it within your 30 days). 

As far as difference between 2016/2017 - right now, I'd also say there isn't a huge product difference in functionality.  The biggest thing going for 2017 at the moment is the increase from 30 day support to 1 year for all versions.  If you go subscription instead of a stand-a-lone, you get phone support with 2017 now too (instead of just chat or email) and you get major version upgrades with all subscription versions.  With standalone, you get that particular major version and minor version updates (bugfixes and things like that), but you wont't get a major version upgrade unless it comes out within 30 days of your purchase. 

 

Forum Hero
Posts: 68
Comments: 8216

#45

S G wrote:

Bobbo...,

You're like the local resident expert.

Thanks so very, very much not only for the quick reply but also the detailed response that's concise and easy to understand.

I got to find my ATI 2016 DVD.  I think I may have tossed it because I was upset with fact I bought it in Jan 2016 but it didn't support PCIE NVM then...

 

Since I registered package would I be able to still download build media so I could create a Bootable USB stick?

 

Thanks again...

 

P.S.

Are you using ATI 2016 toc

a. created backups

b. backup disk images

c. cloning of drive

 

Thanks again bobbo...

 

Truly appreciate it...

I'm on 2017.  I particiipated in the Beta and was given a license for helping out.  It's very similar to 2016 in my opinion.  Primarily bug fixes, some better NAS connetivity (although there are some new bugs in the current version too).  

Acronis is aweseome at full disk image and restore.  My personal favorite and go to are my offline backups and restores - they are flawless.  Teh app itself works well in Windows, but there's always the risk of Windows, an app (AV or malware or even VSS) causing an issue when backup are done online.  I take my backups in Windows on automated, set schedules and I've restoed just fine.  However, I also try to take a full disk backup once per week or before I do anything major to my system or plan to test with it.  I feel most secure with offline backups since the OS is idle when it's taken and they have been really reliable.  The stuff in Windows is bonus for me (although what a lot of people look for first of course). 

I have cloned, but my preference is backup and restore over clone:  Here's why:

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/126072#comment-391792

and 

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/125166#comment-387534

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#46

Thanks Bobbo...

I just upgraded my XPS 15 from 16GB to 32GB.

$300 Dell
$190 Crucial
$140 Amazon using same memory from Crucial.

Crucial says they offer lifetime no matter who sells it.

45 days full refund from Crucial if unhappy or problems
30 days full refund from Amazon.

I got Crucial CT2K16G4SFD8213 ( 2 x 16 : DDR4 : 2133mhz ) from Amazon.

​##########################################

I also purchased:

a. seagate 4TB USB 3.0 drive to store my image backups
b. Lexar 2 x 32GB USB 3 sticks ( S75 Jumpdrive )

I'm going to read through thread again and see if I can figure out how to create ATI 2017 bootable media on the USB sticks.   That way I can perform offline disk image backups like you mentioned.  I suspect ATI 2017 will already have necessary drivers...

​##########################################

I looked at my CMOS / BIOS and it's currently set as follows:

Boot Mode is: UEFI: Secure Boot: ON

Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology:
Intel(R) RST 14.7.0.2341 RAID Driver
PCIe 1.0, PM951 NVMe Samsung 1024GB S2FZNXA..., 953.8GB

 

SATA Operation:
a. disable - not checked
b. AHCI - not checked
c. RAID On - checked

##########################################

I'm wrestling between subscription and 1 - time only...

Subscriptions are less expensive and I get access to more versions of ATI in same period.  Plus based on what I've read once the subscription is over / ends, I still have full access to all restore functions of the software and access to any of my locally saved disk images / backups...

 

1 - Time is typically what I get because if it works, I just use it over time.

Subscriptions are less expensive if I update ATI every year...

Upgrade:

Standalone:
$39.99 - 1 Time 3 computers
$49.99 - 1 Time 5 computers

Subscription
$49.99 - 1 year 3 computers
$84.99 - 2 year 3 computers

$54.99 - 1 year 5 computers 
$89.99 - 2 year 5 computers

 

Bobbo...

Have you ever purchased a subscription or heard of or personally experienced any issues or hassles with subscriptions?

 

As always...

Thanks...

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#47

I saw someone mentione MBR ( Master Boot Records ), but I think since Windows 8 or 8.1 all boot partitons on UEFI are GPT (GUID Partitions Tables ).  I may be wrong but I think Apple has also moved away from Apple Partition Tables to GPT.   Plus linux also recognizes GPT...

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#48

Apologize Bobbo and others...

I've been using my phone and missed your posts don't use subscription...

I'll get standalone only...

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#49

I'm downloading the 30 dary trial version now...

S G
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

#50

Acronis should thank all you for your contributions to this thread and replies to my posts.

Because of your generosity, courteousy and professionalism in assisting me I purchased 2yr 5 computer subscription.   I'll also refer ATI 2017 to others so they'll make additional sales and revenue because of you.

Special thanks to following for their contributions to this thread and replies to my posts.  The three of you have saved me a lot of TIME, MONEY, and elimiated all potential frustrations trying to reverse engineer the product getting it to work.

Michael Owen additionally for opening this thread
Bobbo_3C0X1
Jerryyyyy
 

This has been the most useful thread I've ever come across concerning backups for PCs / Laptops / Consumers.

I've performed backups for a very, very long time: residential, commercial and at major corporations ( NAS, SAN, Tapes, Virtual Disks emulating tapes, etc... )

I just became feed up when I purchased XPS 15 9530 and later 9550 when they first came out and there was simply no support for the new SSDs.  Dell, a multi-billion dollar corp hadn't even tested their backup solutions or recover disk / USB Stick used to reset systems back to factory image.  They sent me multiple USB sticks meant to restore system back to factory default and each and every one blew up the system.  Later after having issue escalated it was determined Dell Engineer's had not even tested the USB sticks on the new Samsung drives.  It took 3+ months and lots of destroyed disks to get them to admit that.

Microsoft another billion dollar corp's Windows Backup has never worked for me on any of the computers ( PC's, Laptops, Servers, etc... ) I've been responsible for and their forums are practically useless concerning this issue and Microsoft never chimes in.

You'd think that backup which is a very essential and common tool would be perfected and very simple...

Acronis ATI 2017 does an excellent job at performing what I assume is an image backup when selecting Entire PC; however, they should make it just as simple to create a bootable USB stick that contains all the necessary drivers to recognize any drive and especially these PCIE NVMe SSDs.  Users should not have to mess with BIOS / CMOS ( RAID / AHCI ) settings and injecting drivers, etc... into the USB image...

Anyway, enough of the ranting...

 

THANKS EVERYONE and ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HELPED ME...

I still have to create a bootable usb stick that has all the necessary drivers so I can just boot off of it and create disk images from PCIE NVMe SSDs, specifically Samsung SM950 & SM951...

I'll read through thread later for that.  I'm going to create some images now that I've just purchased subscription, because trial version wouldn't let me boot from USB stick and create an image ( not supported on trial version ).