128106: Clone 1TB SSHD to 750GB Crucial SSD issue

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Adam Rylko
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Hi,

i am trying to clone my 1TB HDD onto my new crucial MX300 750GB SSD by using Acronis true Image 2015.

I'm getting to the phase were Acronis is asking me to restart pc to continue, than it performs restart and on screen it shows Starting Acronis UEFI loader and then nothing..

I have Win 10 home 64bit. The old HDD is in my laptotp and new SSD connected in case via USB 3.0.

Any thoughts please ??

tuttle
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Please search the forum for "Clone" to find the many posts outlining our recommended procedure. For example, we recommend that you clone only after booting from the ATI bootable Rescue Media, not from Windows, and to have the new SSD in place internally while the old drive (Clone source) is external or in secondary drive position. Also, it would be equally effective but safer to perform a full disk mode backup and restore it to the new drive, rather than to clone.

I am not a fan of cloning. Cloning is an "all or nothing" process. If something goes wrong, the user may end up with two unbootable drives and loss of data. Backup and recovery is a far safer method, and allows for multiple tries if the user is unfamiliar. Cloning has no advantage over full backup and restore, except a slight time saving at the expense of considerably more risk and complexity.

If you do want to clone, it should be performed only after booting from the ATI bootable Rescue Media. Do not allow the PC to boot to Windows with both drives still connected. But, better and safer would be to create a full disk mode backup and restore it to the new drive. Plus, you can save many full system images to a single external drive, versus only one clone.

Clone should be used only by advanced users who know what they are doing. It is riskier and can result in a loss of data and a failed system. Create a full disk mode backup and restore it, using the bootable Rescue Media, to the target disk, as it's far safer and simpler.

Here are a couple of good posts by Bobbo, another MVP, giving recommended clone procedures:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/125166#comment-387534
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/126072#comment-391792

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Steve Smith
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Adam, please be aware that your source 1TB SSHD drive is essentially a Hybrid drive, i.e. a combination of a small SSD with a spinning HDD drive, as such this should not be cloned, but as already advised, you should be using Backup and Restore to effect the same clone operation, which is also a whole lot safer that ending with both drives corrupted and an unbootable system.

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Adam Rylko
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Thanks guys for help. I solved this issue eventually by clone anyway ☺

I putted both HDD to cases USB 3.0 and did it on another laptop (OS win 7 home) using Acronis True Image 2015.

Steve Smith
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Adam, thank you for giving feedback and glad to hear that you found a solution to this issue.

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Bobbo_3C0X1
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I believe that SSHD, as long as it shows up as a basic disk in Windows is clone-able.  I did clone a toshiba sshd to an evo 850 without issue with 2016 back in May - had no other choice as I was visiting Germany and helping my mother-in-law with an upgrade and she had nothing to take a backup with and restore to so I chanced the clone since it was needed.  I think the key is that the newer hybrid drives (within the last couple of years that are a single physical drive in appearance) report themselves as one drive to Windows and Acronis.  On the other hand, systems that have an actual physical SSD for caching and a separate spinning data drive for the data are using using 2 different controllers which report as dynamic to Windows and Acronis) and those, along with any type of RAID setup always report as dynamic and can't be cloned. 

Adam,

I supect it worked from USB to USB because there is no SATA mode involved (no AHCI, no RAID) - they're both just seen as an external drive and the USB drivers in the Acronis media are sufficient on your friends computer.  I don't see why that wouldnt' work on the original system with any version of Acronis either.  However, it sounds like you started the clone from Windows and that's why you need another computer to start the process.  Glad it worked, but is risky.  You should try to familiarize yourself with the Acornis bootable recovery media - where you can take backups, restore backups, or start a clone when the OS is completely idle and without risking the possiblity of making your original computer unbootable (starting a clone or full disk recovery from Windows can make your system unbootable if it cannot switch to the Acronis linux environment successfully, hence not being able to switch it back to Windows once it's started that change).  This is completely avoidable using rescue media.

All-in-all, you accomplished what you set out to, with relative ease, so kudos to you, but keep these in mind down the road to avoid a potential pitfall that can be avoided.  

Cheers!

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Pablo Rizzetto
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Hi! My name is Pablo, I am from Argentina.

I bought the same SSD Crucial 750GB and I have problem cloning.. I made the USB Flash recovery Drive and the problem persists.

What can I do? I have the possibility to connect the old HDD of 1TB and the new SSD of 750GB to my desktop computer with SATA cable.

Do I install Acronis or just run the Recovery USB drive? I can't clone I don't know why.

 

Thanks!

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Pablo, please take a look at this knowledge base article for some useful information about cloning limitations:  https://kb.acronis.com/content/56634

Use your rescue media and do not attempt to start a clone or a backup restoration from Windows - you do not want to chance the possibility of ending up with a completely unbootable machine. Using your rescue media will help ensure that situation is completely avoided.

Skip the cloning.  If possible, take a full disk backup with your recovery media (store it to another location - at least temporarily) and then restore the image to the new drive.  The results will be the same, but it is safer and has less limitations than cloning.  There are a number of reasons a clone is not possible, but using a backup/recovery instead of the clone option should bypass all of them.  

Clones are not possible or can fail if:

1) Original drive has dirty/bad sectors.. run chkdsk /f /r against the original drive first.  Bad sectors will force the clone to try a sector by sector backup.  Ifyou are trying to clone a larger drive to a smaller drive, then it will not fit on the smaller drive when it uses sector by sector since it will want to clone the entire 1TB drive (even the unused space) to the smaller 750Gb drive and will not be able to fit.

2) If you have any dynamic disk in your configuration (RAID, a motherboard that uses an SSD caching drive and a spinning drive together that report as a single drive to Windows, or have set any of the disks in the clone process to dynamic from within Windows disk manager), clone is not supported.  Use backup and recovery instead.

3) Some drives use different sector sizes - drives with different sector sizes cannot be cloned because the layout is different.

4) Check how your original OS was installed (legacy/MBR or UEFI/GPT). Once verified, check how you booted the recovery media - it needs to match how the OS was installed. If the OS is installed as legacy (MBR/bios), then boot your rescue media in legacy mode. If the OS was installed as UEFI/GPT, then boot your rescue media as UEFI.

Check if OS is installed legacy or UEFI:  https://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/29504-bios-mode-see-if-windows-boot-uefi-legacy-mode.html

Check if you are booting your recovery media in legacy or UEFI mode:  https://forum.acronis.com/forum/121829#comment-378318

5) I don't know your other bios details, settings etc.  Make sure you are starting the recovery and/or clone from your usb recovery media and that it can detect both hard drives from there.  Personally, I think you will have less trouble and end up with the results you are looking for, by using the backup and recovery method instead of trying to clone.  It has less limitations, is safer, and it gives you a backup (a restoration point that you can use at any time) should things go bad anytime after that.  

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Finbar Mahon
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Make sure you are starting the recovery and/or clone from your usb recovery media and that it can detect both hard drives from there.

Does that mean you cannot boot from a CD/DvD ??

I have had a lot of problems with a Crucial CT525MX300 which I want to use in a Lenovo B50-10 to replace the Samsung MZYLF 128 HCHP-000l2 installed because the Lenovo autobackup (unremovable) takes up half the capacity. From the start it booted but crashed after a short while. I did interact with Crucial in France where I live but the advice was very unclear. I have finally landed here and used Acronis 2017 which has a completely different site to the one suggested by Crucial France!! 

Landing on here has provide me with real information, up to date and relevant, thanks!!

Barry

Steve Smith
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Barry, you can boot from a CD\DVD but it depends on your computer how successful you will be - some are better than others, especially with newer systems using UEFI & Secure Boot.  USB bootable media tends to be more widely acceptible to boot from plus has the added benefit of being easily updated when necessary.

Be aware that versions of Acronis True Image provided free by companies like Crucial are OEM versions which are often older builds and may be restricted to work with particular makes of disk drives etc.  Support for OEM versions is provided by the vendor, not by Acronis.

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Finbar Mahon
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Thanks for that, never thought there could be a difference. 

Now, to the next step. From your reply to Pablo above I read that I can start the recovery from the USB I am creating just now. Fine, so, should I have a "clean" replacement disk installed and the original SSD on a USB port? By clean I mean the Crucial one I mentioned in the original post. I did make an Acronis backup from the original installed SSD to the new one, should I wipe that before replacing the original SSD with the new one?

Sorry for appearing pedantic, but, as I said, the information I have been reading seems to assume a good deal of previous knowledge.  I am quite aware of the various bits and pieces but the sequence is sometimes unclear. Typically, most recovery media advice assumes the PC wont start. 

Finaly, I am using Windows 10 latest update, just for information. I am intending to do the backup routine, not a clone, following the general advice on here. 

Many thanks again for your patience, Barry

Steve Smith
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Barry, what are you wanting to actually do here?  If you are wanting to migrate your current Windows 10 OS from a problem Crucial drive to a new Samsung SSD, then the steps are fairly straight-forward.

  1. Create and test the Acronis bootable Rescue Media, to ensure that you can use this and in doing so, can see your disk drives.
  2. Make a full disk & partitions backup of the Crucial drive, including all hidden partitions - with this being stored on an external drive.
  3. Remove the Crucial drive and replace this with the new Samsung SSD.  The Crucial drive can be put to one side and left disconnected for safety.
  4. Boot from the Acronis Rescue Media with the external backup drive connected.
  5. Restore the full disk & partitions backup from the external drive to the Samsung SSD
    Note: See post 128057: [Tutorial] How to recover an entire disk backup for guidance on doing the restore.
  6. If all restores successfully, shutdown, remove the Rescue Media and external drive, then restart the computer to ensure that Windows 10 starts correctly from the new drive.

Note: The Acronis Rescue Media should be started in the same way as your Windows OS - see webpage: Check if your PC uses UEFI or BIOS for help in this area.
Note 2: If the Rescue Media does not see your Samsung SSD, then use the option to Add Disk - alternatively, you could do an initial format of the SSD with a single partition before starting - the drive will be wiped during the restore process.

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Finbar Mahon
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Hi Steve,

I really don't know where to go now. All of your instructions, for which many many thanks, worked perfectly and the Acronis backup restored on to the MX300 Crucial 525Gb that I had installed to replace the Lenovo installed Samsung. No errors on the log.

Shutdown, removed the rescue media, removed the USB linked backup drive, restarted, booted up fine. 

However, after a few minutes, following autostarts of the VPN and an app I use to pre-clean mails (Mailwasher) ran, no apps would load. I managed to get from normal user to administrator and the Quicken app I use opened but froze after a further few minutes. Could not shut down or re-start, only by long press on the on/off. Started again, all ok, but two or three minutes later, same thing, frozen. 

I reinstalled the original Samsung, all ok, working on it now. 

Is it a Lenovo thing?? Back to the factory?

Barry

Steve Smith
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Barry, sorry to hear that the new Crucial drive is giving these strange problems after booting into Windows.  I haven't heard of this happening as far as I am aware.  Just realised that in my previous update steps I got the makes of the drives the wrong way round, i.e. your original drive is a Samsung, and the new one is the Crucial.

Given the original working drive is the Samsung, one further though - do you have Samsung Magician installed and active on this drive?

If so, try disabling Samsung Magician, then making a new disk & partitions backup with it disabled.  Note: if you have used Samsung Magician to set aside an over provisioning area of the SSD drive, then you may need to disable / remove this too as this would need the Crucial SSD to support the same and provide a similar program to the Samsung Magician program to configure it.

 

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Finbar Mahon
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Steve Smith wrote:

Given the original working drive is the Samsung, one further though - do you have Samsung Magician installed and active on this drive?

No, but maybe I should, I need some magic ;)

The only slightly bizarre thing I have noticed is that some apps require me to be in Admin. For example, Intuit quicken, which I mentioned, only works in Admin, it returns a "new user" message when I run it in "my own name" mode. I had to register with MS for something and since then I have been "nagged" to change user regularly. Or at least I think it is MS which does it. I have not had time to investigate. 

Barry

 

Steve Smith
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Barry, one further thought in relation to your 'bizarre thing' update, have you also restored the disk signature for the original disk to the new one?

Some applications base their activation status on the disk signature.

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Finbar Mahon
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Steve Smith wrote:

Barry, one further thought in relation to your 'bizarre thing' update, have you also restored the disk signature for the original disk to the new one?

Some applications base their activation status on the disk signature.

OK, so I will need to reinstall the Crucial, and look at the registry, or will the registry have noted the previous installation? If so, would it be the second last entry? since I changed back after the freeze? 

That entry reads 

Dosdevices G: Reg Binary 5f 00 3f 00 etc. 

Thanks again, Barry

Steve Smith
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Barry, when you do a restore of a disk backup there is an option to also restore the disk signature of the original drive to the new one (covered in step 7. of the tutorial document).

See also webpage: What is a Disk Signature? which explains this area in more detail.

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Barry,

1) Can you also check for us if the original OS install was legacy or UEFI (despite the type of bios you have) - just to be sure. 

http://www.howtogeek.com/175649/what-you-need-to-know-about-using-uefi-instead-of-the-bios/

2) Then, can you verify if you're booting your rescue media as legacy or UEFI?  

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/121829#comment-378318

3) When you shutdown, are you using Windows fastboot?  I would recommend using shutdown /p to force a full shutdown before any full disk or clone operation.  This will ensure that a complete shutdown is done and not a fastboot (hibernation) shutdown which can lock the disk (or at least try to, to protect the hibernation file that may be stored on the disk) 

4) Are these problems occuring after a clone or have you tried a backup and recovery instead of a clone as well with the same results?  If you know for sure that you're booting the recoveyr media to match your OS install, and shutting down fully (no fastboot shutdown) and clone results the same, then try a backup and recovery instead.  I only backup/recover - I don't clone and it works very well. 

 

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OK, thanks for all that, I'll try the varous suggestions. 

Overall, I did do a clone using EaseUS todo, and that was where the freezing started, followed various suggestions about uninstalling malware,etc., apps, to no effect and then arrived on here after aan interaction with the French support site for Crucial. 

The latest iteration was following your message of 25 Jan (which didn't have a 7, but the tutorial does). Not sure I did the disk sig bit, probably not.

So, I'll redo the changeover, and do  the /p option. 

Many thanks, and fingers crossed....again!

Barry

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Bobbo_3C0X1 wrote:

Barry,

1) Can you also check for us if the original OS install was legacy or UEFI (despite the type of bios you have) - just to be sure. 

 

EFI

http://www.howtogeek.com/175649/what-you-need-to-know-about-using-uefi-instead-of-the-bios/

2) Then, can you verify if you're booting your rescue media as legacy or UEFI?  

EFI

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/121829#comment-378318

3) When you shutdown, are you using Windows fastboot?  I would recommend using shutdown /p to force a full shutdown before any full disk or clone operation.  This will ensure that a complete shutdown is done and not a fastboot (hibernation) shutdown which can lock the disk (or at least try to, to protect the hibernation file that may be stored on the disk) 

Did that, btw the B50-10 does not allow the battery to be taken out.

4) Are these problems occuring after a clone or have you tried a backup and recovery instead of a clone as well with the same results?  If you know for sure that you're booting the recoveyr media to match your OS install, and shutting down fully (no fastboot shutdown) and clone results the same, then try a backup and recovery instead.  I only backup/recover - I don't clone and it works very well. 

 

Barry

Finbar Mahon
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Reinstalled the Crucial redid the backup. At step 7 no "recover disk signature" option!!!

Significant??

 

Barry

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All worked fine with the recover, apart from disk signature mentioned abeve.

However,  when I clicked "x" to close the recovery screens, the machine rebooted before I could remove the rescue USB and the external drive.

W10 booted.

So, I ran shutdown /p and now it is hanging at the shutting down screen!!!

Barry

Steve Smith
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Barry, I can only suggest doing a forced power off at this point, i.e. press & hold the power button for more than 4 seconds, then disconnect your USB media and external drive before trying to start Windows 10 again.

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Finbar Mahon
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Did  that and restarted it with the rescue and backup out. Started on W10 OK, but after a few minutes it froze, again.

I have located a place where I can get it serviced. Lenovo only work with issues for "as delievered" machines. These people undertake to do what I need, we'll see. 

Thanks for all your efforts, I'll let you know how I get on by PM.

Barry

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Barry, thanks for all the time you have put into trying to resolve this too, hope that your work with the service folk can help move this forward for you, please do post an update with the outcome.  My son has a Lenovo B50-80 laptop so I may be called on to try to do a similar drive change at some point in the future!

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Finbar Mahon wrote:

OK, thanks for all that, I'll try the varous suggestions. 

Overall, I did do a clone using EaseUS todo, and that was where the freezing started, followed various suggestions about uninstalling malware,etc., apps, to no effect and then arrived on here after aan interaction with the French support site for Crucial. 

The latest iteration was following your message of 25 Jan (which didn't have a 7, but the tutorial does). Not sure I did the disk sig bit, probably not.

So, I'll redo the changeover, and do  the /p option. 

Many thanks, and fingers crossed....again!

Barry

So are you imaging a system that was previously cloned with EaseUS todo or did you just try that as an alternative to see if things went better with a different product?  If using a disk that was previously cloned with EaseUS, if that product did something in the background to the OS or paritions that Acronis is not expecting when it does it's backup/recovery process - unsupported driver or something of that nature.

Also curious if the freezing occurs if you do a safeboot.  If not, after safebooting, if you do a regular boot, does it still freeze?  

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